Comments on: LADSPA support coming to Jokosher http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/ At home with Jono Bacon, Community Manager and Author Sat, 04 Sep 2010 05:57:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: pete http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-2048 pete Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:47:16 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-2048 <p>heh.. i must stop pressing enter in autowrap text environments. format gets all wrongular.</p> heh.. i must stop pressing enter in autowrap text environments. format gets all wrongular.

]]> By: pete http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-2047 pete Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:44:58 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-2047 <p>just back from me hols.. well, i'm less of an audio developer than a musician with some C ken. (and probably less of a musician than i am a professional optimist, at least in that regard ;) occasionally i find the time to maintain sweep and i'm also working on a pixmap interface for a DSSI plugin. google seemed to think this post was topical.. and i tend to agree. :grin:</p> <p>WRT LV2, Dave Robillard is working on a convenience library so you might want to check that out when the time comes. LV2 isn't substantial enough to hitch your wagon to yet though. incidentally, it rained a good bit while i was away so i started work on a plugin browser for sweep. i'll be interested to see how you handled plugin selection and categorization.</p> just back from me hols.. well, i’m less of an audio developer than a musician with some C ken. (and probably less of a musician than i am a professional optimist, at least in that regard ;) occasionally i find the time to maintain sweep and i’m also working on a pixmap interface for a DSSI plugin. google seemed to think this post was topical.. and i tend to agree. :grin:

WRT LV2, Dave Robillard is working on a convenience library so you might want to check that out when the time comes. LV2 isn’t substantial enough to hitch your wagon to yet though. incidentally, it rained a good bit while i was away so i started work on a plugin browser for sweep. i’ll be interested to see how you handled plugin selection and categorization.

]]> By: jono http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1847 jono Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:00:14 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1847 <p>pete - thanks for the great information by the way! It is really useful. :)</p> <p>LV2 is looking pretty cool, and when the LADSPA support is in, I hope to look into LV2 support. I really have not looked into it in that much detail. The LADSPA support in Jokosher is largely done, and we will have our own presets code in there to make everything simple to use.</p> <p>So, are you an audio developer? If so, what do you hack on?</p> pete – thanks for the great information by the way! It is really useful. :)

LV2 is looking pretty cool, and when the LADSPA support is in, I hope to look into LV2 support. I really have not looked into it in that much detail. The LADSPA support in Jokosher is largely done, and we will have our own presets code in there to make everything simple to use.

So, are you an audio developer? If so, what do you hack on?

]]> By: pete http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1845 pete Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:24:57 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1845 <p>and that's not all. each app has it's own method of dealing with interfaces so you get a different experience each time. then there's the presets.. :/ however, there are three reasons to be cheerful imo, 1. LV2 is extensible 2. we have a working system for out of process interfaces in DSSI already 3. recently i've heard that QT either will support or does support using glib's event loop. this paves the way for say, a plugn that directly uses QT/KDE to run inside a GTK/Gnome application and vice-versa.</p> <p>"custom GUIs" is listed as a planned extension to LV2 here: http://lv2plug.in/</p> <p>so it's looking good at the moment.</p> and that’s not all. each app has it’s own method of dealing with interfaces so you get a different experience each time. then there’s the presets.. :/ however, there are three reasons to be cheerful imo, 1. LV2 is extensible 2. we have a working system for out of process interfaces in DSSI already 3. recently i’ve heard that QT either will support or does support using glib’s event loop. this paves the way for say, a plugn that directly uses QT/KDE to run inside a GTK/Gnome application and vice-versa.

“custom GUIs” is listed as a planned extension to LV2 here: http://lv2plug.in/

so it’s looking good at the moment.

]]> By: jono http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1840 jono Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:24:02 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1840 <p>pete - I agree that pragmatism was naturally a large proponant in decided to omit a specific GUI, and merely exposing port capabilities mitigates this responsibility to the application developer. I understand it, but its still not ideal. Take for example an EQ - here, a vertical orientation for the controls is not ideal because (a) screens are wider than longer and (b) you need to compare slider height to form EQ graphs. That is nigh-on impossible with horizontal EQ controls. Sure, I understand the current solution, but LV2 needs to solve these problems I would say.</p> pete – I agree that pragmatism was naturally a large proponant in decided to omit a specific GUI, and merely exposing port capabilities mitigates this responsibility to the application developer. I understand it, but its still not ideal. Take for example an EQ – here, a vertical orientation for the controls is not ideal because (a) screens are wider than longer and (b) you need to compare slider height to form EQ graphs. That is nigh-on impossible with horizontal EQ controls. Sure, I understand the current solution, but LV2 needs to solve these problems I would say.

]]> By: pete http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1830 pete Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:39:24 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1830 <p>keke, oops + =P</p> keke, oops + =P

]]> By: pete http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1829 pete Fri, 28 Jul 2006 04:38:51 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1829 <p>hmm. the decision not to include an interface componant to the LADSPA spec was born out of pragmatism not a lack of consideration. the technical problems associated with this are significant and given that the devs were unfunded and underpopulated it was a wise move. a working plugin system was a huge shot in the arm for linux audio and if they had tried to tackle these toolkit woes head on, they could well be still at it today. of course, that doesn't stop it being a massive pain in the arse.</p> <p>iain: i don't remember seeing any bug reports or feature requests WRT sweep's little abomination. does marlin support LADSPA?</p> hmm. the decision not to include an interface componant to the LADSPA spec was born out of pragmatism not a lack of consideration. the technical problems associated with this are significant and given that the devs were unfunded and underpopulated it was a wise move. a working plugin system was a huge shot in the arm for linux audio and if they had tried to tackle these toolkit woes head on, they could well be still at it today. of course, that doesn’t stop it being a massive pain in the arse.

iain: i don’t remember seeing any bug reports or feature requests WRT sweep’s little abomination. does marlin support LADSPA?

]]> By: sil http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1803 sil Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:23:45 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1803 <p>iain: I completely agree, and as Jono says we intend to hand-design UI for the most common plugins. However, we shouldn't prevent someone from installing a plugin of their choice for which we have not designed a specific UI.</p> iain: I completely agree, and as Jono says we intend to hand-design UI for the most common plugins. However, we shouldn’t prevent someone from installing a plugin of their choice for which we have not designed a specific UI.

]]> By: jonobacon@home » All you effects belong to us http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1800 jonobacon@home » All you effects belong to us Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:44:37 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1800 <p>[...] One of the issues in terms of dealing with LADSPA plug-ins is that the GUI for each plug-in needs to be auto-generated, and I have already got some code up and running for this. Although this will be the case for the vast majority of plug-ins, certain specific plug-ins, namely compression and EQ will have custom UIs designed for them and be built into Jokosher not as plug-ins, but as features (they will still use the LADSPA plug-in though). This is because (a) virtually all users will use those features, and (b) EQ in particular does not map well to horizontal sliders and instead needs vertical controls. All LADSPA plug-ins that are used in Jokosher will be hooked into the preset engine so that LADSPA plug-ins can have sensible presets shipped with Jokosher. [...]</p> [...] One of the issues in terms of dealing with LADSPA plug-ins is that the GUI for each plug-in needs to be auto-generated, and I have already got some code up and running for this. Although this will be the case for the vast majority of plug-ins, certain specific plug-ins, namely compression and EQ will have custom UIs designed for them and be built into Jokosher not as plug-ins, but as features (they will still use the LADSPA plug-in though). This is because (a) virtually all users will use those features, and (b) EQ in particular does not map well to horizontal sliders and instead needs vertical controls. All LADSPA plug-ins that are used in Jokosher will be hooked into the preset engine so that LADSPA plug-ins can have sensible presets shipped with Jokosher. [...]

]]> By: jono http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/07/25/ladspa-support-coming-to-jokosher/comment-page-1/#comment-1795 jono Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:26:16 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=724#comment-1795 <p>iain - it isnt perfect, and I agree it is not an ideal situation. Autogenerated user intefaces feel badly documentated and clunky. But, I do feel that there ways to solve some of these usability problems without throwing away all your LADSPA plug-ins and creating a new spec.</p> <p>My next post will explain some of my thinking about how to solve some of these problems. I think it is a combination of sensible meta-data, good usability and discoverable interfaces.</p> <p>There is work going into LADSPA version 2 called LV2 - I recommend you transmit your thoughts to Steve Harris. Use the Linux Audio Developers mailing list to do so. :)</p> iain – it isnt perfect, and I agree it is not an ideal situation. Autogenerated user intefaces feel badly documentated and clunky. But, I do feel that there ways to solve some of these usability problems without throwing away all your LADSPA plug-ins and creating a new spec.

My next post will explain some of my thinking about how to solve some of these problems. I think it is a combination of sensible meta-data, good usability and discoverable interfaces.

There is work going into LADSPA version 2 called LV2 – I recommend you transmit your thoughts to Steve Harris. Use the Linux Audio Developers mailing list to do so. :)

]]>