Jokosher Bugs now on Launchpad

After some discussion earlier today, the Jokosher team have decided to use Launchpad as our bug tracking system. We have been having some troubles using trac’s ticketing system, and Launchpad has a number of benefits for us:

  • Anyone can register and submit bugs.
  • We can share triaging across a team of developers.
  • The same login account can submit bugs and do translations with Rosetta.
  • Malone is a pretty nice bug tracker – and is an easier screen on the eyes of bug reporters and flexible for developers.
  • Better integration with Ubuntu submitted bug reports – this is quite important as many Jokosher users use Ubuntu.

go and view the Jokosher bugs on Launchpad. Aq is also working to import our trac bugs in if possible.

So report your Jokosher bugs here! If you want to report bugs and don’t know how, read this page. :)

  • http://piedmont.homelinux.org Brian

    It’s too bad that Launchpad isn’t open souce. Did you guys look at using Gnome’s bugzilla?

  • http://www.lovesunix.net/blog David Nielsen

    And there goes Jokoshers credibility as a free software project, relying on proprietary software to handle not only bugs but also translations – and I say that as the Jokosher danish translator (well that was untill the leader of the Rosetta danish team went powermad and removed everyones priviliages but that’s another story for another time).

    And no Jono, Malone is not a nice bugtracker, it’s interface makes Bugzilla cry (and that’s saying something), it’s cluttered and hard to navigate,never being to the point. In Malone I spend more time actually finding the right place to look for bugreports than I do filing them, in Bugzilla it’s a simple few clicks (at least with Fedora’s bugzilla deployment). The only exceedingly cool feature of Malone is the ability to tie into external bugtrackers as a means to send bugs upstream which is something I as an avid QA hobbist would love to see in every bugtracker.

  • jono

    I am not suggesting that Malone is a perfect bug tracker, but from the position of a bug reporter, it is much easier than bugzilla.

    As for the Open Source aspect, well yeah, it is not Open Source, but I do understand the position on why Launchpad in not Open Source. It is difficult to establish a centralized solution if every Tom, Dick and Harry set up their own Launchpad and want a centralized solution.

    As for credibility, I suspect those people who object to the use of Launchpad in the development process and as such will refuse to use Jokosher are relative edge cases. Sure, it will piss some people off, but then again, our use of a Cairo, GTK, a green gradient in waves, simple interface, lack of hardcore audio language and various other things may piss people off too. My priority here is a quality, simple, easy to use application.

    So, if this is a blocker for your involvement, thats a real shame, but I hope you can still be involved.

  • http://www.lovesunix.net/blog David Nielsen

    Let’s do the Open Source thing first, it might be hard to have a centralized system if you have everyone running their own. However it’s absolutely impossible to get anyone to use it if it’s proprietary and we can’t use Mr. Shuttleworths vague promises that it might some day with opened up. Once it’s opened, if you pass on the Launchpad system and site to an independent body it would be easier to advocate a system where everyone used the same site. Thus avoiding the fragmentation issue all together as well as the futile idea that every distro should some how trust Ubuntu with their bugreports and development planning.

    I can’t do the translations anymore since the leader of the danish team went a bit power mad and removed everyones privilages to commit work. I’m sorry about that as I liked using Rosetta, the one sensible well designed part of Launchpad I’d worked with*. As Joksoher is only listed on Launchpad and not on l10n-status.gnome.org the official danish team is likely to pass you over as well (I quit that as well since the Ubuntu guy is also part of management there).

    And I absolutely refuse to use Malone to track bugs, I’ve wasted more time messing with that one interface to get bugs filed than I’ve done in 8 years filing bugs with bugzilla. It’s simply confusing, way to confusing. Sad since it was promising.

    My profile on Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/people/david-lovesunix

    • speaking of which it would be nice if the Suggested elsewhere thing had a nice little button to open the other suggested string so you could correct translation mistakes across programs for greater consistency.
  • jono

    Let’s do the Open Source thing first, it might be hard to have a centralized system if you have everyone running their own. However it’s absolutely impossible to get anyone to use it if it’s proprietary and we can’t use Mr. Shuttleworths vague promises that it might some day with opened up.

    Sure, its closed source, and sure there is always the possibility it could go away, but to be honest, I think this is a paranoid view. You seem to forget the sheer amount of free software Mark has sponsored, the development team he funds to create and package free software, and his ongoing ethos about free software. The problem is that you only see “Launchpad is closed source” and ignore this history – closed source software does differ when it comes to respect and expectations, and I would say Mark has proven his worth here.

    Once it’s opened, if you pass on the Launchpad system and site to an independent body it would be easier to advocate a system where everyone used the same site. Thus avoiding the fragmentation issue all together as well as the futile idea that every distro should some how trust Ubuntu with their bugreports and development planning.

    Launchpad is not Ubuntu. This is incorrect. Ubuntu is one project that runs on Launchpad.

    I can’t do the translations anymore since the leader of the danish team went a bit power mad and removed everyones privilages to commit work. I’m sorry about that as I liked using Rosetta, the one sensible well designed part of Launchpad I’d worked with.

    In which case, these issues are unrelated. If the Danish team are having power trip problems, thats not an issue with Launchpad or Rosetta, but an issue with policy. This happens with all kinds of free and closed software. The trick here is fixing policy, not software, and I really hope this gets fixed. IS this a specific translator for Jokosher or a general translation team?

    And I absolutely refuse to use Malone to track bugs, I’ve wasted more time messing with that one interface to get bugs filed than I’ve done in 8 years filing bugs with bugzilla. It’s simply confusing, way to confusing. Sad since it was promising.

    Well, thats your choice, and much as I agree that most bug trackers suck, just refusing to use them is a disservice to free software, particularly with projects such as Jokosher who are young and really need your bug reports. If you don’t want to use the bug tracker, at least send a mail to our mailing list. I assume mailing lists are good for you. :)

    I really hope you can resolve these problems and you can return to helping Jokosher out – lets work together to make it the worlds greatest multi-tracker. :)

  • http://www.david-web.co.uk/ DJ

    I report a lot of bugs and I have to say that I absolutely hate Malone because it just makes bug reporting too difficult.

    For example, to report a bug in Ubuntu using Malone a user has to: 1. Click on ‘The Ubuntu Distribution’ (simply putting the package name in the first search box you see, as most people would expect to do, won’t find anything useful) 2. Enter the package name in the search box 3. Somehow figure out which source package to report the bug against (a newbie is expected to know what a source package is?) 4. Ignore the useless information in the body of the page and click ‘Bugs’ to see if the bug is already reported 5. Click ‘Report a bug’ in the top-left. 6. Enter the bug report, with no guide given as to how to write a good one.

    Or maybe instead of selecting The Ubuntu Distribution, they go another way: 1. User clicks ‘Bugs’ in the top-left 2. User is presented with a page of clutter – do they click ‘Report a bug in a package’ or ‘Bugs in Ubuntu’? 3. If they select ‘Report a bug in a package’ they have to first select the distribution then they’re at step 6 above. If they click ‘Bugs in Ubuntu’ they’re presented with a really useful list of every bug in reported in Ubuntu. 4. Do they use the search box which finds lots of irrelevant bugs? Do they click ‘Report a bug’ in the top-left and finally reach step 6 above?

    While with a typical bugzilla installation: 1. Enter the package name or bug description in the first search box you see to check if the bug is already reported. 2. Click ‘New Bug’ at the top of the page. 3. Create an account (if required) 4. Work through the simple bug reporting guide which helps you choose the right package and makes it clear what information needs to be provided (steps to reproduce etc.).

    I’m betting a fair few users just get lost in Malone and never report their bug, because I certainly did several times when Ubuntu first started using it. I was persistent; a newbie won’t be.

  • jono

    DJ – Now this depends on your use of of Malone. For us the steps are simple:

    We will check for dupes.

    If you have to find a package to report a bug for, I agree, and this is partially solved in Ubuntu by many applications having a Submit a Bug opinion in the Help menu.

    Like I say, I am not saying Malone is the perfect bug tracker, and I believe all bug trackers have their quirks. But hey, this is free software and the open exchange of ideas. How would you resolve these problems? What do you believe would be the best solution to the problem? How would you make bug tracking easier?

    You mentioned bugzilla but AFAIK, their simple bug guide is not a stock feature in most bugzillas, but specific to the GNOME one.

  • http://www.david-web.co.uk/ DJ

    I think Launchpad is a good platform for bug-tracking, but only if you’re a developer. What’s needed is a new UI with usability people being involved in the design – maybe having separate UIs (user, expert user, developer) would fix the issues for newbies while still giving experts/developers the control and functionality they need.

    When a user lands on a bug tracker, it needs to be obvious where they need to go and what they need to do. They should be guided through the steps required to find the right package to report the bug against and given a list of existing bugs so they can check if their bug has already been reported. If it isn’t, they can continue to report it with advice given as to what information they need to provide.

    What’s needed is pretty much the GNOME simple bug guide, but with a little more polish.