Comments on: Sensationalism takes a choke-hold http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/ At home with Jono Bacon, Community Manager and Author Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:56:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: NOVELL: Cool Blogs » Blog Archive » Forking OpenOffice.org http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-17760 NOVELL: Cool Blogs » Blog Archive » Forking OpenOffice.org Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:17:29 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-17760 <p>[...] December 12th, 2006 by Ted Haeger (No Ratings Yet)  Loading ... As many of my readers know, the community manager for Ubuntu, Jono Bacon, is a good friend of mine. One thing I love about Jono is that he’s a level-headed thinker–especially on issues that can stoke the flames of passion among the free software community. His recent post “Sensationalism takes a choke-hold” shows that clearly as he pleads for some sanity in response to a poorly researched Groklaw article about Novell “forking” OpenOffice.org. Now one of my favorite Linux-enthusiast journalists, Steven Vaughan-Nichols, weighs in on the matter, as well. Perhaps I can add some fact-check on the matter while strengthening Jono’s orginal point about falling for the diviside-and-conquer tactic that is playing out in the community. There are some who claim that Microsoft entered into the Novell deal as a divide-and-conquer strategy. To wit, recently the founder of Ubuntu and leader of Ubuntu’s backing company Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth used an openSUSE mailing list to recruit openSUSE community of hackers over to Ubuntu. This mis-step was quickly identified by many members of the openSUSE and free software community(ies) as divisive, and possibly playing right into Micrsoft’s hands. (Please note, I use this event as a way to illuminate the issue, not to project any ill feelings toward Mr. Shuttleworth, as much of the backlash could easily be argued to have been equally overblown. For your consideration, I link to a rather well-balanced summary article about the issue.) The point is that some of the loud protests against the Novell-Microsoft agreement (and, no, I do not overlook the agreement itself) have created a rift in the community where facts are unimportant, and conspiracy claims are king. Somewhere, a monkeyboy is smiling. To Groklaw’s claim that, “There will be a Novell edition of OpenOffice.org and it will support Microsoft OpenXML,” I submit this fact: [...]</p> [...] December 12th, 2006 by Ted Haeger (No Ratings Yet)  Loading … As many of my readers know, the community manager for Ubuntu, Jono Bacon, is a good friend of mine. One thing I love about Jono is that he’s a level-headed thinker–especially on issues that can stoke the flames of passion among the free software community. His recent post “Sensationalism takes a choke-hold” shows that clearly as he pleads for some sanity in response to a poorly researched Groklaw article about Novell “forking” OpenOffice.org. Now one of my favorite Linux-enthusiast journalists, Steven Vaughan-Nichols, weighs in on the matter, as well. Perhaps I can add some fact-check on the matter while strengthening Jono’s orginal point about falling for the diviside-and-conquer tactic that is playing out in the community. There are some who claim that Microsoft entered into the Novell deal as a divide-and-conquer strategy. To wit, recently the founder of Ubuntu and leader of Ubuntu’s backing company Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth used an openSUSE mailing list to recruit openSUSE community of hackers over to Ubuntu. This mis-step was quickly identified by many members of the openSUSE and free software community(ies) as divisive, and possibly playing right into Micrsoft’s hands. (Please note, I use this event as a way to illuminate the issue, not to project any ill feelings toward Mr. Shuttleworth, as much of the backlash could easily be argued to have been equally overblown. For your consideration, I link to a rather well-balanced summary article about the issue.) The point is that some of the loud protests against the Novell-Microsoft agreement (and, no, I do not overlook the agreement itself) have created a rift in the community where facts are unimportant, and conspiracy claims are king. Somewhere, a monkeyboy is smiling. To Groklaw’s claim that, “There will be a Novell edition of OpenOffice.org and it will support Microsoft OpenXML,” I submit this fact: [...]

]]> By: jonobacon@home » Features vs. Freedom http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-13393 jonobacon@home » Features vs. Freedom Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:50:31 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-13393 <p>[...] My opinion on this is simple. I believe that people should simply practise what they preach. If your opinion is “no compromise”, then there should be no compromise. You don’t get to choose what is more ethically acceptable here, this is the point of “no compromise”. From the outset I have always stated that I believe in free software, but I do acknowledge that I sometimes use non-free software - as many of you know, my studio is currently non-free until we all feel the big Jokosher love. I have explicitly not taken a “no compromise” position because I know I could not maintain a “no compromise” lifestyle. As I made clear in a previous entry, I think sensationalism is an enemy in the free software world, but unfortunately much of the discussion about features vs. freedom seems to boil down to very vocal outbursts by the holier-than-thou brigade who often step beyond sage fact and fall into headlines and rhetoric to grab Planet readers while they eat their breakfast. [...]</p> [...] My opinion on this is simple. I believe that people should simply practise what they preach. If your opinion is “no compromise”, then there should be no compromise. You don’t get to choose what is more ethically acceptable here, this is the point of “no compromise”. From the outset I have always stated that I believe in free software, but I do acknowledge that I sometimes use non-free software – as many of you know, my studio is currently non-free until we all feel the big Jokosher love. I have explicitly not taken a “no compromise” position because I know I could not maintain a “no compromise” lifestyle. As I made clear in a previous entry, I think sensationalism is an enemy in the free software world, but unfortunately much of the discussion about features vs. freedom seems to boil down to very vocal outbursts by the holier-than-thou brigade who often step beyond sage fact and fall into headlines and rhetoric to grab Planet readers while they eat their breakfast. [...]

]]> By: Forking OpenOffice.org « Open Source Advocacy with Reverend Ted http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-12521 Forking OpenOffice.org « Open Source Advocacy with Reverend Ted Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:47:10 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-12521 <p>[...] As many of my readers know, the community manager for Ubuntu, Jono Bacon, is a good friend of mine. One thing I love about Jono is that he’s a level-headed thinker–especially on issues that can stoke the flames of passion among the free software community. His recent post “Sensationalism takes a choke-hold” shows that clearly as he pleads for some sanity in response to a poorly researched Groklaw article about Novell “forking” OpenOffice.org. [...]</p> [...] As many of my readers know, the community manager for Ubuntu, Jono Bacon, is a good friend of mine. One thing I love about Jono is that he’s a level-headed thinker–especially on issues that can stoke the flames of passion among the free software community. His recent post “Sensationalism takes a choke-hold” shows that clearly as he pleads for some sanity in response to a poorly researched Groklaw article about Novell “forking” OpenOffice.org. [...]

]]> By: Boycott Novell » PJ Explains Novell’s Damage http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11757 Boycott Novell » PJ Explains Novell’s Damage Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:04:37 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11757 <p>[...] This comes amid some criticism which suggests that Groklaw has gone too radical. [...]</p> [...] This comes amid some criticism which suggests that Groklaw has gone too radical. [...]

]]> By: moz http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11729 moz Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:54:16 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11729 <p>While I think PJ went a bit over the top with the fork article, I do agree with the underlying concerns.</p> <p>The Microsoft/Novell deal should have absolutely <em>NO</em> bearing on support for OOXML being added to OpenOffice.org. If it does, then Microsoft has lied since they state that OOXML is freely implementable.</p> <p>My concern about this deal is that it will a one-way deal of Novell implementing Microsoft methods and Microsoft doing nothing but lip service. The OOXML converter on source forge is a good example of this. I can see Novell developers listed there, but are there any from Microsoft? If not, then why not?</p> <p>I still don't understand what I as a customer have gained. I see nothing that could not have been provided unilaterally by Novell via a general IP indemnification.</p> While I think PJ went a bit over the top with the fork article, I do agree with the underlying concerns.

The Microsoft/Novell deal should have absolutely NO bearing on support for OOXML being added to OpenOffice.org. If it does, then Microsoft has lied since they state that OOXML is freely implementable.

My concern about this deal is that it will a one-way deal of Novell implementing Microsoft methods and Microsoft doing nothing but lip service. The OOXML converter on source forge is a good example of this. I can see Novell developers listed there, but are there any from Microsoft? If not, then why not?

I still don’t understand what I as a customer have gained. I see nothing that could not have been provided unilaterally by Novell via a general IP indemnification.

]]> By: Peteris Krisjanis http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11718 Peteris Krisjanis Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:12:48 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11718 <p>You don't understand much from patents, do you?</p> <p>I am not a lawyer myself, but... How this deal gives Microsoft to legitimize their claim that free software should have to pay for their stupid software patents? How this invalidate OIN and IBM software patent portfolio, which, obviously, is at our side? And how this makes worse claim that there can be such violations in Linux and surrounding software code?</p> <p>FUD is maybe that you should buy Novell distribution and support (hmmm, in fact, lot of companies presented protection as their product after all SCO fiasco start to begun serious, this is how whole OIN started), but FUD is also that Microsoft now have legit claims, and we should all boo Novell now and see them as evils.</p> <p>About Microsoft financing SCO - I am not so sure, who seek which money and which made decision to finance SCO, there is not enough information on that. I think that it was whole McBride plan at the beginning and Microsoft only saw a opportunity to mess with us. Yes, it is a crime. But this deal is something totally different, because Novell say that there is no violations (and they somehow very legit to say that, after all investments and lawyer consulations), so there is no violations, point.</p> You don’t understand much from patents, do you?

I am not a lawyer myself, but… How this deal gives Microsoft to legitimize their claim that free software should have to pay for their stupid software patents? How this invalidate OIN and IBM software patent portfolio, which, obviously, is at our side? And how this makes worse claim that there can be such violations in Linux and surrounding software code?

FUD is maybe that you should buy Novell distribution and support (hmmm, in fact, lot of companies presented protection as their product after all SCO fiasco start to begun serious, this is how whole OIN started), but FUD is also that Microsoft now have legit claims, and we should all boo Novell now and see them as evils.

About Microsoft financing SCO – I am not so sure, who seek which money and which made decision to finance SCO, there is not enough information on that. I think that it was whole McBride plan at the beginning and Microsoft only saw a opportunity to mess with us. Yes, it is a crime. But this deal is something totally different, because Novell say that there is no violations (and they somehow very legit to say that, after all investments and lawyer consulations), so there is no violations, point.

]]> By: Nathan DBB http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11707 Nathan DBB Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:54:32 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11707 <p>Microsoft funded the investment group that funded the SCO lawsuits. That is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy fact. Now, Microsoft is trying to FUD/FUK free software, and Novell is helping.</p> <p>The FUK is that Microsoft can go to court and site Novell paying them as something that legitimizes their claim that free software should have to pay for their stupid software patents. The FUD is that you have to buy your Linux from Novell or MS can come after you.</p> Microsoft funded the investment group that funded the SCO lawsuits. That is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy fact. Now, Microsoft is trying to FUD/FUK free software, and Novell is helping.

The FUK is that Microsoft can go to court and site Novell paying them as something that legitimizes their claim that free software should have to pay for their stupid software patents. The FUD is that you have to buy your Linux from Novell or MS can come after you.

]]> By: Peteris Krisjanis http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11679 Peteris Krisjanis Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:20:21 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11679 <p>Glanz: I thought you know thousand cases. I just wanted to see do you really know at least one.</p> <p>You don't, it seems to me. You just spread FUD, like Microsoft does. In fact, Microsoft is winning, because you are so afraid of it, that you want others to be too.</p> <p>No offense, but that is simply childish.</p> Glanz: I thought you know thousand cases. I just wanted to see do you really know at least one.

You don’t, it seems to me. You just spread FUD, like Microsoft does. In fact, Microsoft is winning, because you are so afraid of it, that you want others to be too.

No offense, but that is simply childish.

]]> By: Glanz http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11673 Glanz Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:01:21 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11673 <p>Pete</p> <p>Your education is not my job. All I have to say is "read"... If you cannot find anything on the subject of MS instigated frivolous litigation, you need a new search engine or a good professor. Try replacing MSN search with Google.</p> Pete

Your education is not my job. All I have to say is “read”… If you cannot find anything on the subject of MS instigated frivolous litigation, you need a new search engine or a good professor. Try replacing MSN search with Google.

]]> By: Peteris Krisjanis http://www.jonobacon.org/2006/12/05/sensationalism-takes-itss-choke-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-11671 Peteris Krisjanis Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:52:35 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=838#comment-11671 <p>Glanz: tell me at least two such times when Microsoft have been "teh winner" using such techniques?</p> <p>Really?</p> Glanz: tell me at least two such times when Microsoft have been “teh winner” using such techniques?

Really?

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