Comments on: Balancing discussion http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/ At home with Jono Bacon, Community Manager and Author Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:23:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Liz Henry http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-58205 Liz Henry Mon, 21 May 2007 16:11:59 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-58205 <p>What a good discussion - I hope the point is noted especially that it is not right to focus on the person who is offended and to try to persuade them that their perspective is wrong and if they shut up then there is no problem. Instead try listening and since you have a CoC then support it by enforcing it.</p> What a good discussion – I hope the point is noted especially that it is not right to focus on the person who is offended and to try to persuade them that their perspective is wrong and if they shut up then there is no problem. Instead try listening and since you have a CoC then support it by enforcing it.

]]> By: meijusa http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-57440 meijusa Sat, 19 May 2007 21:12:03 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-57440 <p>I can't believe the rhetoric devices Jono put up here to defend offensiveness have been accepted - the slippery slope fallacy that if we reject sexist offenses it will follow that we have to protect Emacs users and beard wearers (how absurd! This does not follow!) and the strawman of the latter being so vulnerable (beard wearers are not an oppressed minority and considered lesser people by much of society!)</p> I can’t believe the rhetoric devices Jono put up here to defend offensiveness have been accepted – the slippery slope fallacy that if we reject sexist offenses it will follow that we have to protect Emacs users and beard wearers (how absurd! This does not follow!) and the strawman of the latter being so vulnerable (beard wearers are not an oppressed minority and considered lesser people by much of society!)

]]> By: Ben Smith http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-57433 Ben Smith Sat, 19 May 2007 20:57:25 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-57433 <p>Sooo...whatever happened? has this been resolved? Has the Community Manager decided to take complaints seriously, or is he sticking to his policy of "ignore and deny" until they give up and go away?</p> <p>This is way sad- at least the general Ubuntu community has it right. Too bad the paid guy doesn't.</p> Sooo…whatever happened? has this been resolved? Has the Community Manager decided to take complaints seriously, or is he sticking to his policy of “ignore and deny” until they give up and go away?

This is way sad- at least the general Ubuntu community has it right. Too bad the paid guy doesn’t.

]]> By: Carla Schroder http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-45778 Carla Schroder Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:40:04 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-45778 <p>I want to add my support to all the people fighting this problem. Because it is a problem, and the message from the Ubuntu Community Manager is "What's all the fuss? That's life, get used to it." You know what would be a refreshing change of pace? Saying "Wow, I am so sorry that you are forced to deal with this garbage. I take this very seriously, and I will use my official powers to help in every way possible."</p> <p>The comments to this posting are excellent. Far better than the post itself, and Jono's followups, which sound like unwillingless to face the issues. Might I suggest a different person to deal with this sort of thing? How about a committee with actual women on it, and women and men who aren't afraid to face this stuff head-on?</p> I want to add my support to all the people fighting this problem. Because it is a problem, and the message from the Ubuntu Community Manager is “What’s all the fuss? That’s life, get used to it.” You know what would be a refreshing change of pace? Saying “Wow, I am so sorry that you are forced to deal with this garbage. I take this very seriously, and I will use my official powers to help in every way possible.”

The comments to this posting are excellent. Far better than the post itself, and Jono’s followups, which sound like unwillingless to face the issues. Might I suggest a different person to deal with this sort of thing? How about a committee with actual women on it, and women and men who aren’t afraid to face this stuff head-on?

]]> By: Jane C http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-38107 Jane C Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:04:18 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-38107 <p>Jono - you are wrong. The number of comments this is generating, might indicate that it was offensive, even if you think it was not. Yes it is escalating out of proportion and should be stopped, but be fair in the judgements, if people are to be removed from the planet over language, that is going to apply to all isn't it? Did whoever asked her to leave from the planet speak for the community? Also saying "I got no response from her" while just a few sentences before you said "I have been busy over the weekend with the recording, so sorry for the delay on the replies" indicates one set of rules for you, but another for the recipient.</p> Jono – you are wrong. The number of comments this is generating, might indicate that it was offensive, even if you think it was not. Yes it is escalating out of proportion and should be stopped, but be fair in the judgements, if people are to be removed from the planet over language, that is going to apply to all isn’t it? Did whoever asked her to leave from the planet speak for the community? Also saying “I got no response from her” while just a few sentences before you said “I have been busy over the weekend with the recording, so sorry for the delay on the replies” indicates one set of rules for you, but another for the recipient.

]]> By: towsonu2003 http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-37528 towsonu2003 Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:58:35 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-37528 <p>[quote]... she did not respond to my private emails ...[/quote]</p> <p>I think this is very inappropriate. She doesn't have to respond to anything. She is the one who got offended, and for perfectly valid reasons. Not only that, I think your effort will be perceived as an effort to intimidate her (and I'm not sure if it is not).</p> <p>I think David Gerard is correct in his assertion that a hole is being digged deep in a way that it shouldn't... I hope someone with power to change things for the good will realize this before it's too late (assuming that it already isn't too late).</p> [quote]… she did not respond to my private emails …[/quote]

I think this is very inappropriate. She doesn’t have to respond to anything. She is the one who got offended, and for perfectly valid reasons. Not only that, I think your effort will be perceived as an effort to intimidate her (and I’m not sure if it is not).

I think David Gerard is correct in his assertion that a hole is being digged deep in a way that it shouldn’t… I hope someone with power to change things for the good will realize this before it’s too late (assuming that it already isn’t too late).

]]> By: David Gerard http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-37490 David Gerard Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:56:38 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-37490 <p>It saddens me (but no longer surprises me) that you fail to understand why someone would spend their own money they can ill afford to call up a company PR manager to be company PR managed.</p> <p>I fear you may have to manage the PR using media you can be quoted from.</p> <p>You also appear to have a fundamental lack of grasp of the problem: you appear to think that if only Caroline would shut the hell up, the problem would all go away and the fuss would stop. This is not the case.</p> <p>I see also that other Canonical people have been emailing her, including veiled threats to charge her with CoC violation for getting upset at the first CoC violation. Well done. When you're in a hole, keep digging.</p> It saddens me (but no longer surprises me) that you fail to understand why someone would spend their own money they can ill afford to call up a company PR manager to be company PR managed.

I fear you may have to manage the PR using media you can be quoted from.

You also appear to have a fundamental lack of grasp of the problem: you appear to think that if only Caroline would shut the hell up, the problem would all go away and the fuss would stop. This is not the case.

I see also that other Canonical people have been emailing her, including veiled threats to charge her with CoC violation for getting upset at the first CoC violation. Well done. When you’re in a hole, keep digging.

]]> By: jono http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-37448 jono Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:06:53 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-37448 <p>David - if you read that email and consider that intimidation with phrases such as "I am sorry to hear about the problems you have encountered." and "I hope you return to the community, and if you have any further issues/concerns or just want to have a chat some time, let me know". I fail to see what you mean.</p> <p>Or, maybe you mean the mail I sent today saying "Can we schedule a call to discuss these issues? I am keen to resolve the situation and gather your feedback to see how we can improve things." and I give Caroline my phone number.</p> <p>I am wanting to speak to her to find out more and work to resolve these kinds of problems.</p> David – if you read that email and consider that intimidation with phrases such as “I am sorry to hear about the problems you have encountered.” and “I hope you return to the community, and if you have any further issues/concerns or just want to have a chat some time, let me know”. I fail to see what you mean.

Or, maybe you mean the mail I sent today saying “Can we schedule a call to discuss these issues? I am keen to resolve the situation and gather your feedback to see how we can improve things.” and I give Caroline my phone number.

I am wanting to speak to her to find out more and work to resolve these kinds of problems.

]]> By: David Gerard http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-37445 David Gerard Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:57:39 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-37445 <p>She forwarded me a copy. And before you claim "it's a private email", I note that you're a Canonical employee. So if you put your foot in it (e.g. this posting and your actions following it), you're putting the company's foot in it.</p> She forwarded me a copy. And before you claim “it’s a private email”, I note that you’re a Canonical employee. So if you put your foot in it (e.g. this posting and your actions following it), you’re putting the company’s foot in it.

]]> By: jono http://www.jonobacon.org/2007/03/30/balancing-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-37437 jono Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:54:51 +0000 http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932#comment-37437 <p>David - I utterly, utterly dispute the insinuation of me intimidating Caroline. How on earth can you claim this having never seen the email?</p> David – I utterly, utterly dispute the insinuation of me intimidating Caroline. How on earth can you claim this having never seen the email?

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